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The United States National Health Insurance Act (HR676)
2003-07-17 14:13:32
The United States National Health Insurance Act (HR676) by Cong. John
Conyers, 108th Congress looks like it would be a really nice improvement to the mess we have here in the USA. The bill requires a MODEST 3.3% payroll tax on employers to pay for the bill. So what's the beef here? I guess to much is needed to help support those poor underprivledged rich folks who need those tax cuts! But sooner or later as inflation edges up the cost of health insurance premiums WE WILL have to create something new. No Way are employers going to pay your health premiums if the cost of those premiums go above a given percentage of your salary. What will they pay? Will YOUR employer pay the equivalent of 8% of your salary for health insurance premiums? Will they pay 10% or 15% or 20%??? Remember these premiums are growing FASTER than the rates of inflation! YOU may feel you are indispensible but your employers is going to be cranking those numbers and at some point YOU are not going to be worth the investment! Check out the bill. I have included a link below: http://www.pnhp.org/nhibill/nhi_execsumm.html It would cover everyone and yes it would create TAXES...(oh my GOODNESS...TAXES) to pay for it. When are we all going to wake up to the fact that WE HAVE TO PAY FOR THINGS. Remember old George W. was a C-student, yes from YALE, who only got into the school because his 'daddy' was an alumin! Conyers plan looks great to me! Check it out!
2003-07-18 00:37:44
"Karl" > The United States National Health Insurance Act (HR676) by Cong. John > Conyers, 108th Congress looks like it would be a really nice improvement > the mess we have here in the USA. > > The bill requires a MODEST 3.3% payroll tax on employers to pay for the > bill. So what's the beef here? I guess to much is needed to help support > those poor underprivledged rich folks who need those tax cuts! > > But sooner or later as inflation edges up the cost of health insurance > premiums WE WILL have to create something new. No Way are employers going > to pay your health premiums if the cost of those premiums go above a given > percentage of your salary. What will they pay? Will YOUR employer pay > equivalent of 8% of your salary for health insurance premiums? Will they > pay 10% or 15% or 20%??? Remember these premiums are growing FASTER than > the rates of inflation! YOU may feel you are indispensible but your > employers is going to be cranking those numbers and at some point YOU are > not going to be worth the investment! > > > Check out the bill. I have included a link below: > http://www.pnhp.org/nhibill/nhi_execsumm.html > > It would cover everyone and yes it would create TAXES...(oh my > GOODNESS...TAXES) to pay for it. > > When are we all going to wake up to the fact that WE HAVE TO PAY FOR > Remember old George W. was a C-student, yes from YALE, who only got into > the school because his 'daddy' was an alumin! > > Conyers plan looks great to me! Check it out! > > > The medical-industrial complex has too much clout to stop raising health costs by twice the rate of inflation. It has been going on now for 60 years and will continue to go on forever unless something is done. But Bush isn't going to do it.
2003-07-18 09:16:39
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:37:44 GMT, "George Conklin"
> >"Karl" >> The United States National Health Insurance Act (HR676) by Cong. John >> Conyers, 108th Congress looks like it would be a really nice improvement >to >> the mess we have here in the USA. >> >> The bill requires a MODEST 3.3% payroll tax on employers to pay for the >> bill. So what's the beef here? I guess to much is needed to help support >> those poor underprivledged rich folks who need those tax cuts! >> >> But sooner or later as inflation edges up the cost of health insurance >> premiums WE WILL have to create something new. No Way are employers going >> to pay your health premiums if the cost of those premiums go above a given >> percentage of your salary. What will they pay? Will YOUR employer pay >the >> equivalent of 8% of your salary for health insurance premiums? Will they >> pay 10% or 15% or 20%??? Remember these premiums are growing FASTER than >> the rates of inflation! YOU may feel you are indispensible but your >> employers is going to be cranking those numbers and at some point YOU are >> not going to be worth the investment! >> >> >> Check out the bill. I have included a link below: >> http://www.pnhp.org/nhibill/nhi_execsumm.html >> >> It would cover everyone and yes it would create TAXES...(oh my >> GOODNESS...TAXES) to pay for it. >> >> When are we all going to wake up to the fact that WE HAVE TO PAY FOR >THINGS. >> Remember old George W. was a C-student, yes from YALE, who only got into >> the school because his 'daddy' was an alumin! >> >> Conyers plan looks great to me! Check it out! >> >> >> > >The medical-industrial complex has too much clout to stop raising health >costs by twice the rate of inflation. It has been going on now for 60 years >and will continue to go on forever unless something is done. But Bush isn't >going to do it. > Healthcare costs have risen twice the rate of inflation since 1943, Georgie? Don't think so, sweets.. Just one more in your apparently endless series of false claims. But thanks for playing anyway, always good for a giggle. pixie
2003-07-18 13:27:27
"Gretchen Evans" news:060ghvgmsohjn6g2gih0bpb07tviuhocjm@4ax.com... > On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:37:44 GMT, "George Conklin" > > > > > >"Karl" > >> The United States National Health Insurance Act (HR676) by Cong. John > >> Conyers, 108th Congress looks like it would be a really nice > >to > >> the mess we have here in the USA. > >> > >> The bill requires a MODEST 3.3% payroll tax on employers to pay for the > >> bill. So what's the beef here? I guess to much is needed to help > >> those poor underprivledged rich folks who need those tax cuts! > >> > >> But sooner or later as inflation edges up the cost of health insurance > >> premiums WE WILL have to create something new. No Way are employers > >> to pay your health premiums if the cost of those premiums go above a > >> percentage of your salary. What will they pay? Will YOUR employer pay > >the > >> equivalent of 8% of your salary for health insurance premiums? Will > >> pay 10% or 15% or 20%??? Remember these premiums are growing FASTER > >> the rates of inflation! YOU may feel you are indispensible but your > >> employers is going to be cranking those numbers and at some point YOU > >> not going to be worth the investment! > >> > >> > >> Check out the bill. I have included a link below: > >> http://www.pnhp.org/nhibill/nhi_execsumm.html > >> > >> It would cover everyone and yes it would create TAXES...(oh my > >> GOODNESS...TAXES) to pay for it. > >> > >> When are we all going to wake up to the fact that WE HAVE TO PAY FOR > >THINGS. > >> Remember old George W. was a C-student, yes from YALE, who only got > >> the school because his 'daddy' was an alumin! > >> > >> Conyers plan looks great to me! Check it out! > >> > >> > >> > > > >The medical-industrial complex has too much clout to stop raising health > >costs by twice the rate of inflation. It has been going on now for 60 > >and will continue to go on forever unless something is done. But Bush > >going to do it. > > > > Healthcare costs have risen twice the rate of inflation since 1943, > Georgie? Don't think so, sweets.. Just one more in your apparently > endless series of false claims. > > But thanks for playing anyway, always good for a giggle. > > pixie Gretchen how fast has healthcare costs, particularly health insurance premiums risen? Any idea. I know RECENTLY they (the insurance premiums) have been rising faster than inflations as have prescription drug prices. I feel if you track that growth rate in cost. At SOME point you will hit a wall where it will become too expensive for an employer to offer it's workers. And the SYSTEM surely depends on a LARGE portion of the market contributing to it in order to sustain itself. So, in my opinion, if costs continue to rise faster than the rest of economy can keep up then the system will begin to collapse at some point. >
2003-07-19 13:07:33
"Karl" > > "Gretchen Evans" > news:060ghvgmsohjn6g2gih0bpb07tviuhocjm@4ax.com... > > On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:37:44 GMT, "George Conklin" > > > > > > > > > >"Karl" > > >> The United States National Health Insurance Act (HR676) by Cong. John > > >> Conyers, 108th Congress looks like it would be a really nice > improvement > > >to > > >> the mess we have here in the USA. > > >> > > >> The bill requires a MODEST 3.3% payroll tax on employers to pay for > > >> bill. So what's the beef here? I guess to much is needed to help > support > > >> those poor underprivledged rich folks who need those tax cuts! > > >> > > >> But sooner or later as inflation edges up the cost of health > > >> premiums WE WILL have to create something new. No Way are employers > going > > >> to pay your health premiums if the cost of those premiums go above a > given > > >> percentage of your salary. What will they pay? Will YOUR employer > > >the > > >> equivalent of 8% of your salary for health insurance premiums? Will > they > > >> pay 10% or 15% or 20%??? Remember these premiums are growing FASTER > than > > >> the rates of inflation! YOU may feel you are indispensible but your > > >> employers is going to be cranking those numbers and at some point YOU > are > > >> not going to be worth the investment! > > >> > > >> > > >> Check out the bill. I have included a link below: > > >> http://www.pnhp.org/nhibill/nhi_execsumm.html > > >> > > >> It would cover everyone and yes it would create TAXES...(oh my > > >> GOODNESS...TAXES) to pay for it. > > >> > > >> When are we all going to wake up to the fact that WE HAVE TO PAY FOR > > >THINGS. > > >> Remember old George W. was a C-student, yes from YALE, who only got > into > > >> the school because his 'daddy' was an alumin! > > >> > > >> Conyers plan looks great to me! Check it out! > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >The medical-industrial complex has too much clout to stop raising > > >costs by twice the rate of inflation. It has been going on now for 60 > years > > >and will continue to go on forever unless something is done. But Bush > isn't > > >going to do it. > > > > > > > Healthcare costs have risen twice the rate of inflation since 1943, > > Georgie? Don't think so, sweets.. Just one more in your apparently > > endless series of false claims. > > > > But thanks for playing anyway, always good for a giggle. > > > > pixie > > Gretchen how fast has healthcare costs, particularly health insurance > premiums risen? Any idea. I know RECENTLY they (the insurance premiums) > have been rising faster than inflations as have prescription drug prices. > > I feel if you track that growth rate in cost. At SOME point you will hit > wall where it will become too expensive for an employer to offer it's > workers. And the SYSTEM surely depends on a LARGE portion of the market > contributing to it in order to sustain itself. > > So, in my opinion, if costs continue to rise faster than the rest of > can keep up then the system will begin to collapse at some point. > > > > > wants more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more forever. Rates have been rising at twice the rate of inflation for about 50 years now, but she does not know that or care. When can it stop? Can it be sustained? Of course not. But the current system of non-competition has been set up by the AMA, which remains in control. Here is the quote from Starr's book on the subject: The elimination of countervailing power in medical care was a fourth element in the structural development of professional sovereignty. The state, corporations, and voluntary associations (such as fraternal societies) might have exercised countervailing power, but all were kept out of medical care, or on its margins. Their exclusion meant no organized buyers offset the market power of physicians. Doctors could then set prices according to what clients could pay. The absence of countervailing power was also key to the political influence of the profession. (P. 231).
2003-07-19 17:58:39
"George Conklin" news:pobSa.109389$Io.9362002@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net... > > "Karl" > > > > "Gretchen Evans" > > news:060ghvgmsohjn6g2gih0bpb07tviuhocjm@4ax.com... > > > On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:37:44 GMT, "George Conklin" > > > > > > > > > > > > > >"Karl" > > > >> The United States National Health Insurance Act (HR676) by Cong. > > > >> Conyers, 108th Congress looks like it would be a really nice > > improvement > > > >to > > > >> the mess we have here in the USA. > > > >> > > > >> The bill requires a MODEST 3.3% payroll tax on employers to pay for > the > > > >> bill. So what's the beef here? I guess to much is needed to help > > support > > > >> those poor underprivledged rich folks who need those tax cuts! > > > >> > > > >> But sooner or later as inflation edges up the cost of health > insurance > > > >> premiums WE WILL have to create something new. No Way are > > going > > > >> to pay your health premiums if the cost of those premiums go above > > given > > > >> percentage of your salary. What will they pay? Will YOUR employer > pay > > > >the > > > >> equivalent of 8% of your salary for health insurance premiums? > > they > > > >> pay 10% or 15% or 20%??? Remember these premiums are growing > > than > > > >> the rates of inflation! YOU may feel you are indispensible but > > > >> employers is going to be cranking those numbers and at some point > > are > > > >> not going to be worth the investment! > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Check out the bill. I have included a link below: > > > >> http://www.pnhp.org/nhibill/nhi_execsumm.html > > > >> > > > >> It would cover everyone and yes it would create TAXES...(oh my > > > >> GOODNESS...TAXES) to pay for it. > > > >> > > > >> When are we all going to wake up to the fact that WE HAVE TO PAY > > > >THINGS. > > > >> Remember old George W. was a C-student, yes from YALE, who only > > into > > > >> the school because his 'daddy' was an alumin! > > > >> > > > >> Conyers plan looks great to me! Check it out! > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > >The medical-industrial complex has too much clout to stop raising > health > > > >costs by twice the rate of inflation. It has been going on now for > > years > > > >and will continue to go on forever unless something is done. But > > isn't > > > >going to do it. > > > > > > > > > > Healthcare costs have risen twice the rate of inflation since 1943, > > > Georgie? Don't think so, sweets.. Just one more in your apparently > > > endless series of false claims. > > > > > > But thanks for playing anyway, always good for a giggle. > > > > > > pixie > > > > Gretchen how fast has healthcare costs, particularly health insurance > > premiums risen? Any idea. I know RECENTLY they (the insurance > > have been rising faster than inflations as have prescription drug > > > > I feel if you track that growth rate in cost. At SOME point you will > a > > wall where it will become too expensive for an employer to offer it's > > workers. And the SYSTEM surely depends on a LARGE portion of the market > > contributing to it in order to sustain itself. > > > > So, in my opinion, if costs continue to rise faster than the rest of > economy > > can keep up then the system will begin to collapse at some point. > > > > > > > > > > Pixie only understands how to be nasty. Economics elude her. She > wants more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more > forever. Rates have been rising at twice the rate of inflation for about > years now, but she does not know that or care. I don't know if you correct at all about health costs rising for 50 years faster than inflation. I certainly would agree with you that it has more than likely increased faster than inflation RECENTLY though. When can it stop? Can it be > sustained? Of course not. But the current system of non-competition has > been set up by the AMA, which remains in control. > > Here is the quote from Starr's book on the subject: > > The elimination of countervailing power in medical care was a fourth > in the structural development of professional sovereignty. The state, > corporations, and voluntary associations (such as fraternal societies) > have exercised countervailing power, but all were kept out of medical > or on its margins. Their exclusion meant no organized buyers offset the > market power of physicians. Doctors could then set prices according to > clients could pay. The absence of countervailing power was also key to > political influence of the profession. (P. 231). > > > > > > >
2003-07-20 12:17:32
"Herman Rubin" news:bfc2i9$3ds0@odds.stat.purdue.edu... > In article > George Conklin > > >"Karl" > > >> "Gretchen Evans" > >> news:060ghvgmsohjn6g2gih0bpb07tviuhocjm@4ax.com... > >> > On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:37:44 GMT, "George Conklin" > >> > > > > >> > >"Karl" > >> > >> The United States National Health Insurance Act (HR676) by Cong. > >> > >> Conyers, 108th Congress looks like it would be a really nice > >> improvement > >> > >to > >> > >> the mess we have here in the USA. > > ..................... > > >> > >> Check out the bill. I have included a link below: > >> > >> http://www.pnhp.org/nhibill/nhi_execsumm.html > > >> > >> It would cover everyone and yes it would create TAXES...(oh my > >> > >> GOODNESS...TAXES) to pay for it. > > And what would it cover? > > >> > >> When are we all going to wake up to the fact that WE HAVE TO PAY > >> > >THINGS. > > A major part of medical costs is the action of homo > economicus, by which he balances what he has to pay against > what he receives. As much is prepaid, and has already been > paid whether or not he uses the medical care, he will, quite > properly, use more than he would if this were not the case. Herman, that kind of arrangement was put there by the legal system with the active support of the AMA which outlawed the other arrangements in its quest to maximize costs for the patient. Companies used to have other arrangements, but they were outlawed after years of efforts by the AMA, as Starr has outlined and doumented in his book. login as: jeptha Sent username "jeptha" jeptha@shell.ntrnet.net's password: Last login: Sun Jul 20 07:51:01 2003 from jax-tnt2-pool2-22.coastalnet.com ############################################## Welcome to shell.ntrnet.net ############################################## Welcome to the TeleSouth Network Shell Server. This machine is a brand new Dell Poweredge Server running Red Hat 7.x. We are very pleased with the performance talk.politics.medicine #116672 (0 + 2 more) (?)--(?)--(?)--(?)--[1] From: hrubin@odds.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) [1] Re: The United States National Health Insurance Act (HR676) Date: Sat Jul 19 14:27:21 EDT 2003 Lines: 66 In article George Conklin >"Karl" >> "Gretchen Evans" >> news:060ghvgmsohjn6g2gih0bpb07tviuhocjm@4ax.com... >> > On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:37:44 GMT, "George Conklin" >> > >> > >"Karl" >> > >> The United States National Health Insurance Act (HR676) by Cong. >> > >> Conyers, 108th Congress looks like it would be a really nice >> improvement >> > >to >> > >> the mess we have here in the USA. ..................... talk.politics.medic talk.politics.medicine: 1-116671 rec.antiques.radio+phono: 1-188033 alt.planning.urban: 1-44781 sci.med.prostate.cancer: 1-28536 misc.transport.road: 1-305970 misc.transport.rail.americas: 1-89221 alt.society.sustainable: 1-12404 rec.music.country.old-time: 1-24903 ~ ~ ~ talk.politics.medicine #116673 (1 + 5 more) (?)+-(?)--(?)--(?)--[1] From: hrubin@odds.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) \-(?)--(?)--(?)--[1] Newsgroups: talk.politics.medicine,talk.politics, + soc.culture.canada,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.russian [1] Re: Health Care: Is America being short changed? Date: Sat Jul 19 14:28:32 EDT 2003 Lines: 30 In article George Conklin >"Don Quijote" >news:d82348eb.0307180810.42f57400@posting.google.com... >> Mike Wilcox >news:<3F172047.1FAE04D4@sympatico.ca>... >> > They could just move all of their plants to Canada and save a bundle >;~)) >> No wonder "some" want to see the Single Payer Insurance sink... >> Is it unfair competition? :) > $1,200 worth of medical care in each and every car is an unsustainable >burden for American business. In the end, the medical system will bankrupt >us. Newsgroups: talk.politics.medicine,talk.politics,soc.culture.canada,soc.culture.europe,s oc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Health Care: Is America being short changed? Summary: Expires: References: Sender: Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: Shell Services by TeleSouth Network Keywords: Cc: In article Herman Rubin >In article >George Conklin > >>"Don Quijote" >>news:d82348eb.0307180810.42f57400@posting.google.com... >>> Mike Wilcox >>news:<3F172047.1FAE04D4@sympatico.ca>... >>> > They could just move all of their plants to Canada and save a bundle >>;~)) > >>> No wonder "some" want to see the Single Payer Insurance sink... > >>> Is it unfair competition? :) > >>> http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote > >> $1,200 worth of medical care in each and every car is an unsustainable >>burden for American business. In the end, the medical system will >>us. > > >Do you think it will be any cheaper if the government >runs it? Only if healthcare is cut. > > earn four times what you do or that nurses must earn twice what a school teacher earns. The pay differences come from politics, not skills. As Starr reminds us: The elimination of countervailing power in medical care was a fourth element in the structural development of professional sovereignty. The state, corporations, and voluntary associations (such as fraternal societies) might have exercised countervailing power, but all were kept out of medical care, or on its margins. Their exclusion meant no organized buyers offset the market power of physicians. Doctors could then set prices according to what clients could pay. The absence of countervailing power was also key to the political influence of the profession. (P. 231). > To control costs, "insurance" for expected expenses is the > opposite of what should be done. Look at the opposition to > making certain drugs non-prescription; their prices decrease, > but they increase to the medical consumer. Incorrect. If you take out the $100 medical visit for permission to buy the drug, then it is always cheaper off prescription. > >> > >The medical-industrial complex has too much clout to stop raising > >health > >> > >costs by twice the rate of inflation. It has been going on now for > >> years > >> > >and will continue to go on forever unless something is done. But > >> isn't > >> > >going to do it. > > And if more government involvement occurs, that will be > added to the costs. Physician payments are no longer the > major item. Costs are being added by others, because of > the fact that insurance will pay for them. The entire wage structure of health care is set by physician wages. There is vast inflation of what is paid all the way down to the bottom of the system. Why do you always equate high costs with quality? george conklin
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