Health Care: Is America being short changed?

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DONQUIJOTE1111@YAHOO.COM (DON QUIJOTE) 2003-07-17 14:16:27

Well, it seems someone is making a huge profit here... Who's the loser
though?

"Every other industrialized nation provides comprehensive care to
everyone at a much lower cost than our system that leaves so many out.
Other nations spend 6 to 10 percent of their Gross Domestic Product,
or GDP, whereas we, the wealthiest nation on earth, spend 14 percent
of our GDP.

Single payer insurance is commonly defined as a single government fund
within each state which pays hospitals, physicians and other health
care providers, replacing the current multi-payer system of private
insurance companies and health plans. It would provide coverage for
the 44 million who are uninsured. It would eliminate the financial
threat and impaired access to care for the tens of millions who do
have coverage but are unable to afford the out-of-pocket expenses
because of deficiencies in their insurance plans. It would return to
the patient free choice of physicians and hospitals, not just choice
of restrictive health care plans. It would relieve businesses of
administrative hassles and expenses of maintaining a health benefits
program. It would remove from the health care equation the middleman -
the insurance/managed care industry - that has wreaked havoc on the
traditional patient-physician relationship, while diverting outrageous
amounts of patient-care dollars to their own coffers. It would control
health care inflation through constructive mechanisms of cost
containment that improve allocation of our health care resources,
rather than controlling costs through an impersonal business ethic
that strips patients of care to improve the bottom line.

In sum, single payer national health insurance would provide access to
high quality care for everyone at an affordable price. Since this
would be beneficial for individuals, businesses, and even the
government, why don't we have a national single payer plan? The
reason: The political will has not developed because of lingering
concerns over the alleged defects of such a proposal. These supposed
defects have been publicized widely by those interests that for
ideological, financial, or other self-serving reasons are opposed to
it. Since the benefits are unimpeachable, we should look the claims of
the plan's critics."

full text...

http://www.rickhubbard.org/Issues-HealthCare-WouldASinglePayerSystemBeGoodForEveryone.htm


Meanwhile the industry--or what's left of it--suffers from high labor
costs...

Health Costs Soaring, Automakers Are to Begin Labor Talks
By DANNY HAKIM


DETROIT, July 14 — The Big Three automakers, which open contract talks
with the United Auto Workers union on Wednesday, are making a bigger
issue out of reducing medical costs than they have in years.

But the union has staked out health insurance as untouchable. "We're
not going to share costs," said Ron Gettelfinger, the U.A.W.
president, at a recent news briefing.

Instead, many in the automobile industry think, the union, knowing the
competitive pressures that Detroit is under, may give ground on issues
like wage increases, plant closings or work rules. The matter of
controlling medical costs would remain largely untouched.

Health costs have been soaring for many employers. In other
industries, businesses have generally passed along more and more of
the costs to workers and retirees, if they maintain benefits at all.
Not so in the auto industry, where union leaders have negotiated some
of the most substantial medical benefits in the country for their
members.

What is more, in contrast to recent years when sport utility vehicles
and pickup trucks were highly profitable, vehicle prices are falling,
if one factors in the effect of interest-free financing and rebates as
high as $4,000.

Proposals in Congress to add prescription drug coverage to Medicare
would help the likes of General Motors, the largest automaker and also
the nation's largest buyer of popular drugs like Viagra, Prilosec and
Nexium. A recent Goldman, Sachs report referred to the proposed drug
plans in Congress as the "automaker enrichment act."

But even this change would barely scratch the surface of the Big
Three's health cost problems. For G.M., which is also the largest
private buyer of health care in the United States, such a plan might
trim $2 billion from the $57 billion health care liability it projects
in coming years.

As contract talks open, few expect anything like a strike over health
care payments because both sides have too much to lose. G.M. and the
other big American producers, Ford and Chrysler, could little afford a
strike in the face of bruising competition from foreign automakers
like Toyota and Honda. And as the Big Three go, so goes the U.A.W.,
whose membership has dwindled to fewer than 650,000 at the end of last
year from 1.5 million active workers in the late 1970's.

"The balance of power has shifted to the unions' favor because they
have the power to shut the companies down, and these companies,
because of international competition, are very fragile," said Douglas
A. Fraser, a former president of the U.A.W. and now a professor of
labor relations at Wayne State University.

"There would be devastation if there were shutdowns even for a few
weeks," he said. "But the union knows the competitive landscape and
will exercise that power with intelligence."

In the late 90's, the booming sales of high-margin sport utility
vehicles and pickup trucks helped mask sharply rising health care
costs. But now, the hold of the Big Three on the sport utility and
pickup truck market is under assault from far more profitable Japanese
automakers, which have better reputations for quality.

That has left domestic automakers fighting to hold ground, offering
incentives three times as large as those of Toyota, Honda and Nissan,
yet still watching their market share diminish in a sputtering market.

The absence of a national health system in the United States means
that the Big Three take on social responsibilities that the
governments in Japan and Germany bear. Gary Lapidus, a Goldman, Sachs
analyst, referred in his recent report to the Big Three as "H.M.O.'s
with wheels" that only happen to make cars. G.M. alone provides
medical coverage to nearly half a percent of the United States
population, when dependents are included.

And although Toyota and Honda assemble in the United States most of
the cars they sell here, their plants are much newer, their work
forces younger and their retirees number in the hundreds, not the
hundreds of thousands that depend on the Big Three. They are also not
unionized, except in joint ventures with the Big Three.

While the out-of-pocket health costs of auto workers have not risen in
years, many American workers have seen quite the opposite, and even
white-collar Big Three employees can pay several hundred dollars a
month in premiums and other out-of-pocket expenses. Auto union members
enrolled in H.M.O.'s and P.P.O.'s generally pay $10 or less for
prescriptions or visits to the doctor. Everything else is covered.

As a result, many analysts think that the domestic auto industry is in
a bind similar to the one that crippled the domestic steel industry.
Both feature shrinking companies burdened with health and pension
obligations to armies of retirees, as well as labor contracts
originating in a time of much less global competition.

Uwe Reinhardt, a Princeton University health care economist, calls the
Big Three "a social insurance system that sells cars to finance
itself."

"It's insane to think that a company embedded in a fierce global
competition can function as a social insurance system," he said. "It
is a crazy, anachronistic idea. It's an idea that worked in the 60's,
but lost its validity beginning in the 70's when the car market became
global."

The Big Three and their major suppliers spend some $9,000 and up per
active worker annually, according to Mercer Human Resource Consulting,
compared with $5,758 at the average large company. That rises to about
$15,000 for retirees not covered by Medicare, including benefits for
dependents, and $3,500 to $4,000 for retirees eligible for Medicare.

For G.M., the problem is most acute. The company has 2.5 retirees for
each active worker in the United States, a function of its domestic
market share shrinking to less than 30 percent today from 60 percent
in 1960. Ford has one retiree for each active worker in this country.

Last year, G.M. had medical expenses of $5 billion and Ford $2.8
billion. Drug costs reached $1.4 billion for G.M. and $800 million for
Ford.

Both Toyota and Honda declined to provide similar breakdowns of their
health costs, but no one disputes that they are far lower. Seventy
percent of Ford's $2.8 billion health bill went to retirees, a burden
foreign automakers have yet to contend with in this country.

Many Big Three retirees opt for expensive traditional plans that let
them choose any doctor. Last year, 72 percent of Ford's blue-collar
retirees were enrolled in traditional plans, compared with 23 percent
of its active workers.

At large companies nationwide, 6 percent of active workers pick such
plans, according to Mercer, and Toyota said its North American factory
workers were in line with that figure.

G.M.'s medical cost is equivalent to about $1,200 a car in this
country.

So what could G.M. do with that money? A substantial job "dramatically
upgrading the appearance and the feature portfolio," said Joseph
Phillippi, an analyst at Auto Trends Consulting in Short Hills, N.J.
Start with a sunroof, which costs a few hundred dollars, Mr. Phillippi
said. Or, "$1,200 would buy you the top-of-the-line navigation
system," he said, adding that such a feature generally costs a
consumer $2,500 "and they could give it to you for free."

"Or it could be used to dramatically improve the overall level of the
powertrain of the vehicle," he went on "or you could pour a lot of
that money into sharply upgrading the interior. You could go from
vinyl to leather."

But how do you ask factory workers who perform grinding physical labor
to retreat from hard-won health benefits? More difficult, how do you
ask retirees?

"It's a killing job," Mr. Fraser, the former union president, said of
the stresses and strains of auto work. "What an auto worker wants is
peace of mind and security, and health care is security."

Gregory Stack, 46, a union member who is a car designer for Chrysler
and once was a G.M. factory worker, said the problem was with the
health system itself — runaway drug costs, malpractice suits,
unnecessary surgery.

"Once we do give up some aspect of our benefits," he said, "it will
continue to escalate. We're the highest of all industrialized nations
on health care spending. It is not a sustainable model, but it won't
be solved by being placed on the back of the U.A.W. rank and file."

For many analysts, the health care problem is emblematic of the Big
Three's broad problems and also an incentive for auto manufacturing to
shift to countries like China, where hourly wages can be counted in
pennies, or even Canada, which has a nationalized health care system
and far lower costs.

"When the industry lived in a cocoon and could price to reflect its
cost, these were not issues," said Maryann Keller, a longtime auto
analyst. "But now, the union has to be worried what the cost of
production is in China because that's what's relevant to the ability
of G.M. to support its benefit structure 10 years from now."

Health care is only one piece of the competitive puzzle. G.M. recently
undertook one of the largest sales of corporate bonds, worth $17.5
billion, and used the bulk of the proceeds to offset a $19 billion
pension deficit.

Toyota and Honda also benefit from currency and quality advantages.
And while G.M. has been making significant advances in quality, it
takes years for consumer perceptions to catch up.

Ms. Keller said, "If G.M., Ford and Chrysler can't find a way to make
huge margins on some of their production, like they did with sport
utilities in the late 90's, there is absolutely no way they can afford
to pay these benefits."

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote


MIKE WILCOX 2003-07-17 18:16:39

Don Quijote wrote:

> Well, it seems someone is making a huge profit here... Who's the loser
> though?
>
> "Every other industrialized nation provides comprehensive care to
> everyone at a much lower cost than our system that leaves so many out.
> Other nations spend 6 to 10 percent of their Gross Domestic Product,
> or GDP, whereas we, the wealthiest nation on earth, spend 14 percent
> of our GDP.
>
> Single payer insurance is commonly defined as a single government fund
> within each state which pays hospitals, physicians and other health
> care providers, replacing the current multi-payer system of private
> insurance companies and health plans. It would provide coverage for
> the 44 million who are uninsured. It would eliminate the financial
> threat and impaired access to care for the tens of millions who do
> have coverage but are unable to afford the out-of-pocket expenses
> because of deficiencies in their insurance plans. It would return to
> the patient free choice of physicians and hospitals, not just choice
> of restrictive health care plans. It would relieve businesses of
> administrative hassles and expenses of maintaining a health benefits
> program. It would remove from the health care equation the middleman -
> the insurance/managed care industry - that has wreaked havoc on the
> traditional patient-physician relationship, while diverting outrageous
> amounts of patient-care dollars to their own coffers. It would control
> health care inflation through constructive mechanisms of cost
> containment that improve allocation of our health care resources,
> rather than controlling costs through an impersonal business ethic
> that strips patients of care to improve the bottom line.
>
> In sum, single payer national health insurance would provide access to
> high quality care for everyone at an affordable price. Since this
> would be beneficial for individuals, businesses, and even the
> government, why don't we have a national single payer plan? The
> reason: The political will has not developed because of lingering
> concerns over the alleged defects of such a proposal. These supposed
> defects have been publicized widely by those interests that for
> ideological, financial, or other self-serving reasons are opposed to
> it. Since the benefits are unimpeachable, we should look the claims of
> the plan's critics."
>
> full text...
>
> http://www.rickhubbard.org/Issues-HealthCare-WouldASinglePayerSystemBeGoodForEveryone.htm
>
> Meanwhile the industry--or what's left of it--suffers from high labor
> costs...
>
> Health Costs Soaring, Automakers Are to Begin Labor Talks
> By DANNY HAKIM
>
> DETROIT, July 14 — The Big Three automakers, which open contract talks
> with the United Auto Workers union on Wednesday, are making a bigger
> issue out of reducing medical costs than they have in years.
>
> But the union has staked out health insurance as untouchable. "We're
> not going to share costs," said Ron Gettelfinger, the U.A.W.
> president, at a recent news briefing.
>
> Instead, many in the automobile industry think, the union, knowing the
> competitive pressures that Detroit is under, may give ground on issues
> like wage increases, plant closings or work rules. The matter of
> controlling medical costs would remain largely untouched.
>
> Health costs have been soaring for many employers. In other
> industries, businesses have generally passed along more and more of
> the costs to workers and retirees, if they maintain benefits at all.
> Not so in the auto industry, where union leaders have negotiated some
> of the most substantial medical benefits in the country for their
> members.
>
> What is more, in contrast to recent years when sport utility vehicles
> and pickup trucks were highly profitable, vehicle prices are falling,
> if one factors in the effect of interest-free financing and rebates as
> high as $4,000.
>
> Proposals in Congress to add prescription drug coverage to Medicare
> would help the likes of General Motors, the largest automaker and also
> the nation's largest buyer of popular drugs like Viagra, Prilosec and
> Nexium. A recent Goldman, Sachs report referred to the proposed drug
> plans in Congress as the "automaker enrichment act."
>
> But even this change would barely scratch the surface of the Big
> Three's health cost problems. For G.M., which is also the largest
> private buyer of health care in the United States, such a plan might
> trim $2 billion from the $57 billion health care liability it projects
> in coming years.
>
> As contract talks open, few expect anything like a strike over health
> care payments because both sides have too much to lose. G.M. and the
> other big American producers, Ford and Chrysler, could little afford a
> strike in the face of bruising competition from foreign automakers
> like Toyota and Honda. And as the Big Three go, so goes the U.A.W.,
> whose membership has dwindled to fewer than 650,000 at the end of last
> year from 1.5 million active workers in the late 1970's.
>
> "The balance of power has shifted to the unions' favor because they
> have the power to shut the companies down, and these companies,
> because of international competition, are very fragile," said Douglas
> A. Fraser, a former president of the U.A.W. and now a professor of
> labor relations at Wayne State University.
>
> "There would be devastation if there were shutdowns even for a few
> weeks," he said. "But the union knows the competitive landscape and
> will exercise that power with intelligence."
>
> In the late 90's, the booming sales of high-margin sport utility
> vehicles and pickup trucks helped mask sharply rising health care
> costs. But now, the hold of the Big Three on the sport utility and
> pickup truck market is under assault from far more profitable Japanese
> automakers, which have better reputations for quality.
>
> That has left domestic automakers fighting to hold ground, offering
> incentives three times as large as those of Toyota, Honda and Nissan,
> yet still watching their market share diminish in a sputtering market.
>
> The absence of a national health system in the United States means
> that the Big Three take on social responsibilities that the
> governments in Japan and Germany bear. Gary Lapidus, a Goldman, Sachs
> analyst, referred in his recent report to the Big Three as "H.M.O.'s
> with wheels" that only happen to make cars. G.M. alone provides
> medical coverage to nearly half a percent of the United States
> population, when dependents are included.
>
> And although Toyota and Honda assemble in the United States most of
> the cars they sell here, their plants are much newer, their work
> forces younger and their retirees number in the hundreds, not the
> hundreds of thousands that depend on the Big Three. They are also not
> unionized, except in joint ventures with the Big Three.
>
> While the out-of-pocket health costs of auto workers have not risen in
> years, many American workers have seen quite the opposite, and even
> white-collar Big Three employees can pay several hundred dollars a
> month in premiums and other out-of-pocket expenses. Auto union members
> enrolled in H.M.O.'s and P.P.O.'s generally pay $10 or less for
> prescriptions or visits to the doctor. Everything else is covered.
>
> As a result, many analysts think that the domestic auto industry is in
> a bind similar to the one that crippled the domestic steel industry.
> Both feature shrinking companies burdened with health and pension
> obligations to armies of retirees, as well as labor contracts
> originating in a time of much less global competition.
>
> Uwe Reinhardt, a Princeton University health care economist, calls the
> Big Three "a social insurance system that sells cars to finance
> itself."
>
> "It's insane to think that a company embedded in a fierce global
> competition can function as a social insurance system," he said. "It
> is a crazy, anachronistic idea. It's an idea that worked in the 60's,
> but lost its validity beginning in the 70's when the car market became
> global."
>
> The Big Three and their major suppliers spend some $9,000 and up per
> active worker annually, according to Mercer Human Resource Consulting,
> compared with $5,758 at the average large company. That rises to about
> $15,000 for retirees not covered by Medicare, including benefits for
> dependents, and $3,500 to $4,000 for retirees eligible for Medicare.
>
> For G.M., the problem is most acute. The company has 2.5 retirees for
> each active worker in the United States, a function of its domestic
> market share shrinking to less than 30 percent today from 60 percent
> in 1960. Ford has one retiree for each active worker in this country.
>
> Last year, G.M. had medical expenses of $5 billion and Ford $2.8
> billion. Drug costs reached $1.4 billion for G.M. and $800 million for
> Ford.
>
> Both Toyota and Honda declined to provide similar breakdowns of their
> health costs, but no one disputes that they are far lower. Seventy
> percent of Ford's $2.8 billion health bill went to retirees, a burden
> foreign automakers have yet to contend with in this country.
>
> Many Big Three retirees opt for expensive traditional plans that let
> them choose any doctor. Last year, 72 percent of Ford's blue-collar
> retirees were enrolled in traditional plans, compared with 23 percent
> of its active workers.
>
> At large companies nationwide, 6 percent of active workers pick such
> plans, according to Mercer, and Toyota said its North American factory
> workers were in line with that figure.
>
> G.M.'s medical cost is equivalent to about $1,200 a car in this
> country.
>
> So what could G.M. do with that money? A substantial job "dramatically
> upgrading the appearance and the feature portfolio," said Joseph
> Phillippi, an analyst at Auto Trends Consulting in Short Hills, N.J.
> Start with a sunroof, which costs a few hundred dollars, Mr. Phillippi
> said. Or, "$1,200 would buy you the top-of-the-line navigation
> system," he said, adding that such a feature generally costs a
> consumer $2,500 "and they could give it to you for free."
>
> "Or it could be used to dramatically improve the overall level of the
> powertrain of the vehicle," he went on "or you could pour a lot of
> that money into sharply upgrading the interior. You could go from
> vinyl to leather."
>
> But how do you ask factory workers who perform grinding physical labor
> to retreat from hard-won health benefits? More difficult, how do you
> ask retirees?
>
> "It's a killing job," Mr. Fraser, the former union president, said of
> the stresses and strains of auto work. "What an auto worker wants is
> peace of mind and security, and health care is security."
>
> Gregory Stack, 46, a union member who is a car designer for Chrysler
> and once was a G.M. factory worker, said the problem was with the
> health system itself — runaway drug costs, malpractice suits,
> unnecessary surgery.
>
> "Once we do give up some aspect of our benefits," he said, "it will
> continue to escalate. We're the highest of all industrialized nations
> on health care spending. It is not a sustainable model, but it won't
> be solved by being placed on the back of the U.A.W. rank and file."
>
> For many analysts, the health care problem is emblematic of the Big
> Three's broad problems and also an incentive for auto manufacturing to
> shift to countries like China, where hourly wages can be counted in
> pennies, or even Canada, which has a nationalized health care system
> and far lower costs.
>
> "When the industry lived in a cocoon and could price to reflect its
> cost, these were not issues," said Maryann Keller, a longtime auto
> analyst. "But now, the union has to be worried what the cost of
> production is in China because that's what's relevant to the ability
> of G.M. to support its benefit structure 10 years from now."
>
> Health care is only one piece of the competitive puzzle. G.M. recently
> undertook one of the largest sales of corporate bonds, worth $17.5
> billion, and used the bulk of the proceeds to offset a $19 billion
> pension deficit.
>
> Toyota and Honda also benefit from currency and quality advantages.
> And while G.M. has been making significant advances in quality, it
> takes years for consumer perceptions to catch up.
>
> Ms. Keller said, "If G.M., Ford and Chrysler can't find a way to make
> huge margins on some of their production, like they did with sport
> utilities in the late 90's, there is absolutely no way they can afford
> to pay these benefits."
>
> http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote


They could just move all of their plants to Canada and save a bundle ;~))



Mike Wilcox





GEORGE CONKLIN 2003-07-18 00:41:58


"Don Quijote" wrote in message
news:d82348eb.0307171316.1da572fd@posting.google.com...
> "Every other industrialized nation provides comprehensive care to
> everyone at a much lower cost than our system that leaves so many out.
> Other nations spend 6 to 10 percent of their Gross Domestic Product,
> or GDP, whereas we, the wealthiest nation on earth, spend 14 percent
> of our GDP.


-------------------------------------------------------------------
>> G.M.'s medical cost is equivalent to about $1,200 a car in this
> country.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------


And if the AMA had its way, we would all be calling that CHEAP.





DONQUIJOTE1111@YAHOO.COM (DON QUIJOTE) 2003-07-18 09:10:51

Mike Wilcox wrote in message news:<3F172047.1FAE04D4@sympatico.ca>...
> They could just move all of their plants to Canada and save a bundle ;~))


No wonder "some" want to see the Single Payer Insurance sink...

Is it unfair competition? :)

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote


GEORGE CONKLIN 2003-07-19 13:08:42


"Don Quijote" wrote in message
news:d82348eb.0307180810.42f57400@posting.google.com...
> Mike Wilcox wrote in message

news:<3F172047.1FAE04D4@sympatico.ca>...
> > They could just move all of their plants to Canada and save a bundle

;~))
>
> No wonder "some" want to see the Single Payer Insurance sink...
>
> Is it unfair competition? :)
>
> http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote
>

$1,200 worth of medical care in each and every car is an unsustainable
burden for American business. In the end, the medical system will bankrupt
us.





GEORGE CONKLIN 2003-07-19 13:09:46


"Don Quijote" wrote in message
news:d82348eb.0307180812.125578ae@posting.google.com...
> "George Conklin" wrote in message

news:...
> > "Don Quijote" wrote in message
> > news:d82348eb.0307171316.1da572fd@posting.google.com...
> > > "Every other industrialized nation provides comprehensive care to
> > > everyone at a much lower cost than our system that leaves so many out.
> > > Other nations spend 6 to 10 percent of their Gross Domestic Product,
> > > or GDP, whereas we, the wealthiest nation on earth, spend 14 percent
> > > of our GDP.
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> G.M.'s medical cost is equivalent to about $1,200 a car in this
> > > country.
> > >
> > >-------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > And if the AMA had its way, we would all be calling that CHEAP.
>
> I know, but "made in Mexico" is always an option...
> >


Many people go to Canada and Mexico for drugs and medical care right now.
Thailand is making a big pitch for cardiac care, among other speciality
items.




DONQUIJOTE1111@YAHOO.COM (DON QUIJOTE) 2003-07-19 11:19:26

"George Conklin" wrote in message news:...
> "Don Quijote" wrote in message
> news:d82348eb.0307180810.42f57400@posting.google.com...
> > Mike Wilcox wrote in message
> news:<3F172047.1FAE04D4@sympatico.ca>...
> > > They could just move all of their plants to Canada and save a bundle
> ;~))
> >
> > No wonder "some" want to see the Single Payer Insurance sink...
> >
> > Is it unfair competition? :)
> >
> > http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote
> >
> $1,200 worth of medical care in each and every car is an unsustainable
> burden for American business. In the end, the medical system will bankrupt
> us.


What does it matter? Doctors drive Mercedes...!

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote




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