Re: HRT Even Worse Than Previous Found

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DWood78828 wrote in message
news:20030809161036.08111.00000486@mb-m06.aol.com...

> >Subject: Re: HRT Even Worse Than Previous Found
> >From: "Karl" karlwtz@yahoo.com
>
> >>
> >
> >I thought he was correct and there are some REAL issues regarding hormone
> >replacement?
> >It was all over the networks.
>
> Yes, it is all over the networks, yipee.
> And who recommended hormone replacement therapy and who made the claims

that it

> prevented heart disease, more then twenty years a go? Wait a minute, it

is

> coming to me---yes, yes male researchers.
>
> Most of those recommending against hormone replacement therapy are men. I
> listened to a woman physician that recommended careful consideration be

given

> and that women and their physicians decide when it is appropriate. As

usually,

> rash recommendations are made based on limited research.
>
> Denise
>

Once gain a person who claims to practice medicine knows nothing of
research. The million woman study actually takes in more than that, and if
a million women is not good enough, what ever will be? The opinions of one
under-trained nurse?

Ok Denise, you opened your mouth. Now back it up.


Ok, you're saying that no female researchers supported this approach,
and apparently no male researchers opposed it? Support this with
citations, please.


I'll assume that you screwed this statement up and meant to say that
most "recommending" it, not "recommending against". Whoops!

Here's your chance to fix your screw up and provide some evidence to
support what you said...or meant to say. How many researchers are you
talking about, and what percentage of that group is male?


One female physician's advice sets up this bizzare gender bias you're
trying to sell us? One? And are you inplying that no male physicians
advise "careful consideration" for their female patients?

Drinking and typing...a bad mix. You should be more careful, Denise.

Larry


On 09 Aug 2003 20:10:36 GMT, dwood78828@aol.com (DWood78828) wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
news:02ggjvomja70erlgkfnic289fue26geja8@4ax.com...

> Ok Denise, you opened your mouth. Now back it up.
>
> >And who recommended hormone replacement therapy and who made the claims

that it

> >prevented heart disease, more then twenty years a go? Wait a minute, it

is

> >coming to me---yes, yes male researchers.
>
> Ok, you're saying that no female researchers supported this approach,
> and apparently no male researchers opposed it? Support this with
> citations, please.
>
> >Most of those recommending against hormone replacement therapy are men.
>
> I'll assume that you screwed this statement up and meant to say that
> most "recommending" it, not "recommending against". Whoops!
>
> Here's your chance to fix your screw up and provide some evidence to
> support what you said...or meant to say. How many researchers are you
> talking about, and what percentage of that group is male?
>
> >I listened to a woman physician that recommended careful consideration be

given

> >and that women and their physicians decide when it is appropriate.
>
> One female physician's advice sets up this bizzare gender bias you're
> trying to sell us? One? And are you inplying that no male physicians
> advise "careful consideration" for their female patients?
>
> Drinking and typing...a bad mix. You should be more careful, Denise.
>
> Larry
>

Denise's "logic" is perplexing. The reason countless physicians (both male
and female) recommended HRT for the prevention and treatment of heart
disease is that dozens of observational studies showed a 40-50% reduction in
heart disease. Those studies were conducted by female and male researchers,
and peer-reviewed by editors and reviewers of both genders. Given the data
that HRT prevented heart disease, which is the number one killer of women,
it would have been negligent for physicians not to discuss HRT with
patients. It's not like there was one study showing that HRT helped prevent
heart disease. Does Denise think that male physicians were part of a vast
conspiracy to "hormonize" women? Doctors don't make anything from writing
prescriptions. If anything, most HRT prescriptions are written as part of
an annual exam, which is paid as a global (everything included) fee.
Discussing HRT and writing prescriptions for it takes additional
(uncompensated) time. Put another way, there is no advantage for physicians
to prescribe or continue HRT. Most physicians (gynecologists, family
physicians, cardiologists, internists, etc) who reviewed the data thought
that HRT helped prevent heart disease. There was no malice. It was an
honest attempt to help prevent the most common cause of death in
postmenopausal women.

Ashley
D. Ashley Hill, MD

dahmd wrote in message
news:flYZa.28799$On2.1843226@twister.tampabay.rr.com...

>
> "Larry" wrote in message
> news:02ggjvomja70erlgkfnic289fue26geja8@4ax.com...
> > Ok Denise, you opened your mouth. Now back it up.
> >
> > >And who recommended hormone replacement therapy and who made the claims
> that it
> > >prevented heart disease, more then twenty years a go? Wait a minute,

it

> is
> > >coming to me---yes, yes male researchers.
> >
> > Ok, you're saying that no female researchers supported this approach,
> > and apparently no male researchers opposed it? Support this with
> > citations, please.
> >
> > >Most of those recommending against hormone replacement therapy are men.
> >
> > I'll assume that you screwed this statement up and meant to say that
> > most "recommending" it, not "recommending against". Whoops!
> >
> > Here's your chance to fix your screw up and provide some evidence to
> > support what you said...or meant to say. How many researchers are you
> > talking about, and what percentage of that group is male?
> >
> > >I listened to a woman physician that recommended careful consideration

be

> given
> > >and that women and their physicians decide when it is appropriate.
> >
> > One female physician's advice sets up this bizzare gender bias you're
> > trying to sell us? One? And are you inplying that no male physicians
> > advise "careful consideration" for their female patients?
> >
> > Drinking and typing...a bad mix. You should be more careful, Denise.
> >
> > Larry
> >
>
> Pardon my indulgence. I couldn't let this one slide.
>
> Here are some exerpts from a recent article on HRT in the Orlando

Sentinel.

>

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/custom/science/orl-asechormones07080703a
ug07.story

> Here's a quote from one evil male doctor: "Both studies reinforce the

need

> for women to consider their individual risk factors and weigh them against
> the severity of their menopausal symptoms, said Dr. Wulf Utian, executive
> director of the North American Menopause Society."

The usual copout. Individual risk factors? Cancer risk doubled? Heart
attack risk doubled year 1? It is just one way of dissing the findings and
letting the band wagon roll on.

wrote in message
news:_z4_a.8384$M6.674831@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

>
> dahmd wrote in message
> news:flYZa.28799$On2.1843226@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> >
> > "Larry" wrote in message
> > news:02ggjvomja70erlgkfnic289fue26geja8@4ax.com...
> > > Ok Denise, you opened your mouth. Now back it up.
> > >
> > > >And who recommended hormone replacement therapy and who made the

claims

> > that it
> > > >prevented heart disease, more then twenty years a go? Wait a minute,
> it
> > is
> > > >coming to me---yes, yes male researchers.
> > >
> > > Ok, you're saying that no female researchers supported this approach,
> > > and apparently no male researchers opposed it? Support this with
> > > citations, please.
> > >
> > > >Most of those recommending against hormone replacement therapy are

men.

> > >
> > > I'll assume that you screwed this statement up and meant to say that
> > > most "recommending" it, not "recommending against". Whoops!
> > >
> > > Here's your chance to fix your screw up and provide some evidence to
> > > support what you said...or meant to say. How many researchers are you
> > > talking about, and what percentage of that group is male?
> > >
> > > >I listened to a woman physician that recommended careful

consideration

> be
> > given
> > > >and that women and their physicians decide when it is appropriate.
> > >
> > > One female physician's advice sets up this bizzare gender bias you're
> > > trying to sell us? One? And are you inplying that no male physicians
> > > advise "careful consideration" for their female patients?
> > >
> > > Drinking and typing...a bad mix. You should be more careful, Denise.
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >
> >
> > Pardon my indulgence. I couldn't let this one slide.
> >
> > Here are some exerpts from a recent article on HRT in the Orlando
> Sentinel.
> >
>

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/custom/science/orl-asechormones07080703a

> ug07.story
> > Here's a quote from one evil male doctor: "Both studies reinforce the
> need
> > for women to consider their individual risk factors and weigh them

against

> > the severity of their menopausal symptoms, said Dr. Wulf Utian,

executive

> > director of the North American Menopause Society."
>
> The usual copout. Individual risk factors? Cancer risk doubled? Heart
> attack risk doubled year 1? It is just one way of dissing the findings

and

> letting the band wagon roll on.
>

This is why people pay physicians for their expertise. Every medication or
treatment option has risks and benefits. A common example of the
risk/benefit analysis that I discuss with patients every day is the
treatment options for uterine fibroids. One would assume that every patient
would prefer a medical ("safer") option versus a surgical option for
treatment of a uterine fibroids, because they are rarely life-threatening.
Yet, even after discussing medical therapy at length, some women prefer
hysterectomy or myomectomy. They are aware of the risks, but want a
definitive cure. They are willing to accept the higher risk of death,
bleeding, scar tissue formation, etc., that comes with surgery because they
do not want to risk treatment failure with medication, or they have tried
meds or other therapy and did not like the side effects. Other women can't
believe someone would want surgery, and demand medical therapy. In a given
work day I might have half my patients request surgery, and the other half
request medical therapy. HRT is a treatment option for hot flushes and
vaginal dryness. Many of my patients weaned (or just stopped) HRT after the
WHI results were announced. I would guess that 40% have restarted because
they suffer from symptoms and do not want to suffer from these. In every
case I have discussed the risks of breast cancer, stroke, DVT, etc., and, as
a rough estimate, about 40% have continued the medication despite hearing
the risks. Patients have autonomy, George, and although you (or I) may not
make the same choices, the patient has the free will to make the choice that
best fits her situation.

Ashley

Orac wrote in message
news:orac-04EE39.08501212082003@host9.newsfeeds.com...

> In article <_z4_a.8384$M6.674831@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> wrote:
>
> > dahmd wrote in message
> > news:flYZa.28799$On2.1843226@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> > > Here's a quote from one evil male doctor: "Both studies reinforce the
> > need
> > > for women to consider their individual risk factors and weigh them

against

> > > the severity of their menopausal symptoms, said Dr. Wulf Utian,

executive

> > > director of the North American Menopause Society."
> >
> > The usual copout. Individual risk factors? Cancer risk doubled?

Heart

> > attack risk doubled year 1? It is just one way of dissing the findings

and

> > letting the band wagon roll on.
>
> No, George, it's called practicing medicine. Because each patient is
> different, his/her risk factors will be different, and this may alter
> the risk-benefit ratio in favor of or against treatment--ANY treatment.

Of course each patient is different. But when a medical treatment does
the risk of cancer or heart attacks, that research cannot be simply ignored
because current ideology states that past practices are ok because patients
are different. Art kills.

dahmd wrote in message
news:klh_a.38898$On2.1975409@twister.tampabay.rr.com...

>
> This is why people pay physicians for their expertise. Every medication

or

> treatment option has risks and benefits. A common example of the
> risk/benefit analysis that I discuss with patients every day is the
> treatment options for uterine fibroids. One would assume that every

patient

> would prefer a medical ("safer") option versus a surgical option for
> treatment of a uterine fibroids, because they are rarely life-threatening.
> Yet, even after discussing medical therapy at length, some women prefer
> hysterectomy or myomectomy. They are aware of the risks, but want a
> definitive cure. They are willing to accept the higher risk of death,
> bleeding, scar tissue formation, etc., that comes with surgery because

they

> do not want to risk treatment failure with medication, or they have tried
> meds or other therapy and did not like the side effects. Other women

can't

> believe someone would want surgery, and demand medical therapy. In a

given

> work day I might have half my patients request surgery, and the other half
> request medical therapy. HRT is a treatment option for hot flushes and
> vaginal dryness. Many of my patients weaned (or just stopped) HRT after

the

> WHI results were announced. I would guess that 40% have restarted because
> they suffer from symptoms and do not want to suffer from these. In every
> case I have discussed the risks of breast cancer, stroke, DVT, etc., and,

as

> a rough estimate, about 40% have continued the medication despite hearing
> the risks. Patients have autonomy, George, and although you (or I) may

not

> make the same choices, the patient has the free will to make the choice

that

> best fits her situation.
>
> Ashley
>
>

Once a treatment becomes a social norm pushed through high-volume books
like "Forever Feminine," it becomes hard to stop the bandwagon. However,
such norms have been pushed through generations of physicians who promised
women safety and even prevention of HRT. Further, patients always think like
you do: "Everyone is different."
My wife has had heat flashes for many years, and has had to fight HRT off
with a stick. She has even been told she was irresponsible for not trying
HRT. Now she hears no more about it.